Dear Prudence is online weekly to chat live with readers. Here’s an edited transcript of this week’s chat.
Danny Lavery: Afternoon, everyone! In just a few weeks, the days will start getting longer. Let’s just hold on until then.
Q. Not my type: My older co-worker has a “puppy crush” on me. This is encouraged by our office matriarchs. The sexual desire on my part is nil. I don’t want to hurt him, but I spent most of high school and college dating one guy. I usually use the “I have a boyfriend” line to ward off unwanted advances, but we broke up over the pandemic. I don’t want to hurt my co-worker. He is generally a good guy, but the older ladies in the office are all invested in us like a Hallmark movie. It is creepy. I have turned him down twice, and they tell him “third time is the charm” and try to cheer him on and wear me down.
In an attempt to dampen this, I told one lady that he wasn’t my type. She then interrogated me. I admitted stupidly I didn’t find him attractive, and she called me “selfish and shallow.” Now they have all piled on me about how “looks aren’t everything.” He is 29 to my 21. I need this job. I have loans. I don’t know how to deal with this short of screaming in the middle of the office “I DON’T WANT TO SLEEP WITH HIM.” I know this is stupid, but I feel like I am being hunted. Can you help me not blow this up in my face? He is generally a good guy, but every time I let him down gently, these ladies take it like a challenge.
A: Oh my God, this might be the most dysfunctional workplace I’ve come across yet—and that’s saying something for this column. I am so, so sorry you have been put in this absolutely untenable and horrifying position. Please don’t blame yourself for “stupidly” admitting you weren’t attracted to your co-worker, because you are being sexually harassed by every other member of your office. This older man who’s trying to force you to accept his advances by sending in female colleagues to wear you down is not a “good guy;” he is a creep of the first order and should be fired yesterday. This is shocking, horrifying, and likely actionable.
Please consult an employment lawyer before doing anything like going to HR or reporting this to management, because an office atmosphere this toxic—there, I said it! Finally an opportunity to call something toxic and really mean it, from the back of my teeth—won’t start and end with a few bad apples. This culture of harassment and violation may very well go all to the top. You will likely have to go to HR at some point, because the company will have to know about this issue in order to be legally responsible (which you really, really need the company to be!). Document everything to the best of your ability—the date, the approximate time, and what happened, like, “Thursday, Oct. 20th, Camille told me I was selfish and shallow for refusing to sleep with Bruce, spent the rest of the afternoon trying to convince me to give into his sexual harassment;” this will be useful to bring to your lawyer as you figure out next steps. You are being harassed on a truly terrifying, monumental scale, and you deserve so much more than just “not blow[ing] this up.” In the meantime, tell all of your colleagues who are on the same reporting level as you to never mention this to you again, that the subject is closed, and you do not welcome any further comments or questions on that front.
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Q. No gay for my godson: I’m bisexual. I grew up Mormon and my circle of best friends are all from my basically all-Mormon college. They don’t approve of my sexuality but are quiet about it. I am still Christian but am not Mormon anymore, and was deeply hurt by my church. My best friend is still Mormon and she and her husband have 2-year-old twin sons. One is my godson and I adore them both. I do not give them anything that falls outside of my or their parents’ beliefs and stick to neutral ground (e.g. nature books). I respect that their parents are raising them Mormon and I even participated, pre-COVID, in getting them ready for church and attended their blessings.
Now my partner and I are expecting. This is my first female partner and will be my first child. My best friend told me that after much thought, she has decided not to attend my shower or participate in my child’s blessing. She did give me a Mormon-themed gift that I honestly didn’t appreciate. I am so hurt. The most painful part is that she won’t let her sons come over now that my partner and I live together. I may go to them, but they may not come to me. It is unrelated to her trust in me as a caretaker and all about my “home’s morality.” My partner is hurt that I go to spend time with them based on this and questions if I will do that when our child is born and contribute to them feeling inferior. What do you think?
A: I think your partner is hurt, and that you are hurt, and for very good reason. If you mean “what do I think” in the sense of what you ought to do next, I think you have multiple options, but they’re only as good as the honesty that undergirds them. Whether you decide to maintain some limited contact with your former best friend, it will have to be with the understanding that she does not—and likely will never—treat you with the respect and dignity with which you have always treated her. You may love her to the moon and back, and you may have a very powerful emotional history. You may wish that your continued cheerfulness when she says she can’t attend your baby shower because your home is cesspool of sin will eventually win her regard; that she’ll finally recognize your suffering and the deep humanity therein, and beg your forgiveness; that in the desperate hopefulness of Matthew 18:15 you could speak your sister’s fault to her, between her and you alone; that she would hear you; and in so doing you could regain your sister. Such hope is agonizing in the face of someone whose love we cannot bear to lose, but who cannot let go of their contempt for queerness, no matter the cost.
I think you cannot reasonably ask your partner to see your homophobic friend, even if you decide to maintain some contact with her. I think you should tell your friend that you no longer want Mormon-themed gifts, and ask that she respect that decision. And I think you should cultivate a multiplicity of friendships with gay, bi, and trans people, so that you have a great deal of support in your life that’s not dependent on queer abjection. And I think you should seriously consider ending this friendship that is causing you immense pain.
Q. Do I tell my brother’s girlfriend about his history of cheating? My younger brother “Allan” dated “Lisa” more a decade ago, when they were 14 and 15. They broke up and went their separate ways, losing contact. He was living out west but moved back home when the pandemic eliminated his job in June. He and Lisa reconnected and started seeing each other again, moving at warp speed. She sold her house and moved in with him. Now they’re talking about marriage very soon.
My problem and question is regarding his fidelity. He has never stayed faithful in a relationship. This isn’t speculation. He has cheated on every girlfriend he has ever had. I have no idea if he and Lisa have talked about this. They say they know each other completely and have no secrets. I don’t want to overstep and mention this to Lisa, but at the same time I would want to know that about a man I was going to marry. I’m hoping they’ll have a long engagement, but what if they decide to go to city hall tomorrow? Do I have an obligation to tell Lisa? I’m not trying to ruin this for them, but I don’t want them (her) to rush marriage and kids without knowing all the facts.
A: I should think the first move would have to be talking to your brother! If you had reason to think he was cheating on her now, things might be different, but even in that case I’d encourage you to try speaking to him before going to Lisa. If they do go to city hall tomorrow, then they will get married. Perhaps the marriage will be an excellent one; perhaps it will fall apart within a year. They already live together and have known each other for more than a decade, so it’s not as if their connection is a casual one. You cannot control how invested Lisa already is in this relationship, and you cannot keep either of them from getting hurt at some point. If you want to ask your brother whether “no secrets” includes his past cheating, you certainly can, although don’t be surprised if he’s offended by such a question.
Q. Judgmental Grandma: My mother has managed to alienate both my teenagers by offering judgmental comments about them, vocally disapproving of my 15-year-old’s hair color and clothing choices, and my 17-year-old’s nose ring. She is a judgmental person in general, the kind who is rude to servers and assumes the worst about everyone. I grew up with this behavior and took pains during their childhood to make sure my children weren’t subjected to it, but now that the kids are older, they see the bad parts of Grandma and want no part of it.
Grandma lives by herself in a different state (Grandpa, a moderating force in her life, died two years ago) and, due to COVID, is increasingly isolated and lonely. She is active on Zoom and lives relatively close to my brother, who comes over at least once a week to help her out, but, still, she misses my kids, who are her only grandchildren. Recently, she mentioned that her friends’ kids created some kind of trivia game that they play with their grandparents over Zoom, and she wants my kids to do the same thing. I strongly suspect her friends’ kids are younger than mine; regardless, my kids have given this a hard pass. I do make my children call Grandma on a rotating schedule once a week, since a judgmental, lonely grandma is still a lonely grandma, but I am hesitant to insist they create and participate in something they have no desire to do. I have suggested to Grandma that she create some kind of game and call my kids directly on their cell phones or the home phone, to either play or just chat with them, but she refuses.
I should also say, she has never apologized for her mean behavior in the past, insisting she doesn’t remember the things she said, so she shouldn’t be held responsible for them. I am torn between having Grandma bear the logical consequences for her behavior and forcing my kids to show compassion to a lonely older relative. What’s your call?
A: I think this sentence really hits on your problem: You’re tempted to “forc[e] my kids to show compassion,” a choice you believe to be at odds with your values of reciprocity, mutual respect, and logical consequences for cruelty. But let’s play that one through to the end. Maybe you can force your kids to call her more often or add regular game-playing to their existing call schedule, but your 17-year-old will be living independently soon enough, and your 15-year-old won’t be far behind. Your ability to force your children to maintain relationships against their own interests and well-being is limited to begin with, but it drops off pretty sharply once they reach the age of majority. If your mother refuses to call her grandchildren herself, refuses to apologize when she hurts them, and relentlessly criticizes their appearance, then she’s the one damaging the relationship, not them. Putting them in a position where they have to interact with her more often will only at best postpone their future estrangement, and it might even damage your relationship with them now.
The better solution, I think, is to figure out how to limit the amount of time and energy you spend listening to your mother complain about your children’s conduct, lie about her own past behavior, and generally try to blame the world for her problems. Perhaps part of your problem is that seeing your children make decisions you believe aren’t possible for yourself creates a sense of resentment—”can they really be allowed to not bend over backward to accommodate her, without feeling guilty? If they’re allowed to do it, what does that mean for all the years I spent ignoring her cruelties, covering them up, and working overtime to shield others from her? Was that time wasted? If they displease her, am I just going to have to listen to my mother complain about my kids until she dies?” Your kids are, I think, behaving wisely by resisting her demands coming in by proxy. This might be an opportunity for you to learn from your kids and follow in their footsteps.
Q. Baby trans: A year and a half ago, I had this wonderful fling with a transmasculine person that came to an end when I had to move cities for school. After I moved, we stayed in contact and I think we both felt bittersweet that it couldn’t have continued. He was one of the first trans people I was ever really close with.
Over the last year I’ve been coming to terms with the fact that I also identify as transmasculine (it’s been a long time coming), and I think a large part of this has to do with spending time with him and coming to understand how beautiful it is to be trans. Part of me wants to send him a message telling him that knowing him helped me to realize I am trans, which I am so grateful for. Obviously I still have some leftover feelings that are coloring my perspective, so I am wondering whether you think this would be too much of an emotionally loaded message to send to someone I have not talked to in about a year.
A: It may very well be a loaded message, but it’s also not uncommon—I think a lot of trans people have had the experience of hearing an ex say, “So our relationship made me realize something about myself…” Sometimes multiple exes say this! If you haven’t talked in a year but your last conversation was a warm one, make your first message relatively brief and tell him you’ve been thinking of him lately and that you hope he’s doing well. If he responds, then you can come out, and thank him for the role he played in your decision/realization. But if he doesn’t, then I think it’s wise to take his cue and find another way to express your general sense of gratitude for his example to the universe at large. Even an ex who remembers you fondly and generally wants all trans people to be able to come out might have reasons to want to keep an emotional distance, so if part of you is hoping this conversation might inspire a reconciliation, do your best to manage your own expectations and don’t assume this means you two are going to start talking every day. (But congratulations! And of course I hope he’s very effusive and happy for you.)
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Q. Video chat chatterbox: Since the pandemic, my colleagues and I have been having regular social video chats after work hours, and they’ve been surprisingly fun! A few weeks ago, a new person joined the company, and naturally we invited them to join the social chats. The trouble is that this new person talks a lot. They’ll often continue uninterrupted for up to five minutes (a very long time when a dozen other people are waiting to speak; we don’t do breakout rooms), and after someone does get a word in edgewise, they’ll launch into another long speech. I feel frustrated by this person monopolizing the conversation and stressed that I can see others getting bored. I’m the one who suggested we do more social stuff, so I want to make sure everyone has a good time! At the same time, I’m sympathetic toward the new person—I wonder if they might be neurodivergent, as they don’t seem self-centered so much as they’re just not picking up on social cues (such as other people interjecting or looking at their phones while this person is talking, etc.).
What, if anything, can I do to restore the balance in the conversation? Should I reach out to this person privately and if so, what should I say? (I’ll add that I’m senior to them but not their boss, if that affects how I should handle things.)
A: If someone’s not picking up on unspoken cues, but you believe them to be genuinely well-meaning, give them a spoken cue! Obviously, since this is a social gathering after work’s done for the day, you don’t need to offer a directive the way you might in the middle of a meeting, but it’s still creating a problem. (Also, I don’t know how often you’re having these social video chats, but even if they are fun, please don’t feel like you have to keep them going every week—if it’s creating a lot of extra work for you, it’s likely that others feel the same way. There are other ways your colleagues and employees can socialize after work!)
The next time he runs long, politely interrupt and ask him to wrap it up so someone else can have the chance to speak; you can follow that up with a private check-in afterwards. I do think that’s appropriate, given that these virtual happy hours were your idea, and you’re relatively senior. Keep your tone light and friendly: “I’m sure you haven’t realized this, but the last few sessions you’ve spoken for five minutes or more when other people are trying to talk, and it makes conversation difficult. Could you try to keep your remarks to three minutes or less? I don’t want you to feel like you have to start timing yourself, but we do have a lot of participants and it’s important for everyone to get the chance to speak.”
Do not mention anything about neurodiversity to this new employee. There are a dozen different reasons why someone might launch into monologues in virtual conversations with new co-workers without realizing it, and there’s simply no reason to bring diagnostic criteria to a simple request like “scale back.” This is a reasonable thing to ask of someone, you’re a reasonable person to do the asking, and you do not need to be hyper-apologetic or act like you’re asking for the moon.
Q. Re: Not my type: While I agree with all of Daniel’s advice, I think you also need a script to use right now to close the door on all such inquiries. You were saying “I’m with someone” or “he’s not my type” in a commendable effort to be kind, but all these answers leave loopholes and “what ifs” that these people are exploiting. You need to eliminate them.
The answer needs to be “I’m never going to date [Bruce].” If they ask “Why?” the answer is “Because I’m never going to date [Bruce].” If need be, when answering, imagine you are a robot and your primary directive is that you do not date [Bruce]. Following up with a “I need to get back to work now” is optional, but often a helpful reminder that your interrogators are Not Working.
A: Thanks for the script reminder; I’d add to that something like: “Please stop asking me about my romantic life at work.” For a follow-up: “You know I don’t want to discuss my dating life at work. Is there something work-related you need to discuss with me? If not, I’m going to get back to work.”
I don’t have many illusions about how they’ll respond, but they don’t need to like this boundary in order for you to enforce it. But oh my God, the idea of being hounded by all your co-workers into accepting someone else’s advances is just ghastly, I can’t imagine how stressful each workday must be for the letter writer.
Q. Re: Not my type: Asking someone out twice is not sexual harassment. You also have no knowledge whether he’s encouraging these older coworkers to do anything. This is a problem obviously and needs to get fixed but your opinion rests on all the worst faith assumptions.
A: Asking a coworker out twice is inappropriate on its own; the concerted effort by the rest of the office is part of a general environment of harassment, not one that solely rests with the man in question.
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Classic PrudieQ. Interracially incensed: I am an ethnically Chinese man who is married to a white woman. Her family has been very welcoming toward me, but, on occasion, they still say racially inappropriate things to me. They make “Chinese fire drill” jokes, suggest I write birthday cards in Chinese, and ask my wife if she’s comfortable being driven around by an Asian. I tend to join them in the assumption that “this is being said in good fun,” since I don’t genuinely believe they dislike me or my ethnicity. However, this behavior does annoy me, and I don’t feel like my Chinese heritage should be reduced to a party trick for their amusement. Quite frankly I don’t see these jokes ending anytime soon. My question is: Is this the sort of thing that warrants a family meeting where I air my grievances, or is this something I just need to come to terms with? Read what Prudie had to say.
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